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CREATION
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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/08/2007 9:42 PM Reply with quote
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A different perspective:

The big bang was an explosion of not only energy but time. Time is what the universe is. The further you look out, the further back in time you go until you see the big bang, an explosion of plasma so to speak, before that there was nothing in our universe. It did not come from nothing, it came from a singularity, compressed energy, enough to fill the unverse with everything you see, even you yourselves.

To understand this, one needs to understnd gravity. That is the key. A black hole has a singularity in the center, eating up energy and letting nothing escape. Most of an atom is all air, well this singularity squeezes the air out and only keeps the photon, electron and nuetron or something like that. So even though it may only be the size of an atom, it can hold a whole universe inside it. Now, this energy can be released, we know that because of the big bang, the universe and we ourselves are all here.

When a star ages, it no longer burns hydrogen in its nuclear explosions that are equaled by gravity, and it then swells and starts burning whats left to helium or something simular, I'm no scientist and its been a long time since I studied this stuff, but anyway gravity ends up winning the tug of war of nuclear explosions pushing out and gravity pulling in, and the star/sun begins to cave in by gravity; and when this happens it blows off the outside matter and then gravity crushes the star, squeezing the air out of atoms its so strong, and squezzes it into a singualrity, small as an atom, a whole star crushed to almost nothing. That is a black hole. It doesn't stop there, it eats up everything that comes its way, whole stars, whole galaxies sometimes like the milkyway might be doing. The outer shells of the star that was blown off turned to gas dust, and that gas dust mixed with gas and dust in the galaxy itself which in turn started a new cycle of gas and dust being pulled together by gravity forming a star nursery. Stars are born just like they did after the big bang, just like our solar system did; first smaller clumps joined togther, then the slight gravity pulled more and more and gravity got staronger and stronger and the dust and gas became so big it started to explode, a nuclear explosin, but gravity pulled it banck, and as time went, the new stars kept pulling in more and more gas and dust, and gravity got stri=onger and stronger, and this continued until the star ran out of gas and dust, then the cycle continued all over again, it started burning the last atoms to helium and etc and it swelled and then caved in by gravity, blowing off the outer shell foring another nebual, star nursery.

Some stars are small, like ours, it has a boring story, it will swell but its not big enough to cave in so it will turn into a brown dwarf, and dead rock. But other stars are much bigger, and all kinds of things happen, like I mentioned above, and sometimes they have a nearby star frined, and the both start to dance with the affects of gravity and one might swollow the other, and this happens, and there is more, like pulsars which the use to set our clockes etc. It is very interesting. To clain this doesn't happen is just being ignorant. The facts are there. Enjoy gods universe, look into it and see the orion, a nearby star nursery with two old gigantic stars that could explode in our lifetimes. Don't be ignorant to this and other things, there is no limit to what you should know, nothing will take god out of the equaltion, it can actually make yopur faith stronger and you can be armed with facts that will say there is no proof there is not a god, no one can have those answers. But if you claim to have the answers, you are very wrong and you are looking away from gods universe and the truth about god.

Sorry this is so rough, but take what you get, I don't have time to prepare a lesson in cosmology, learn it your self, I'm just showing you some clues.
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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/08/2007 9:52 PM Reply with quote
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Can energy come from nothing? Yes it can and did in a particle excellerator in texas.

The orion is a gigantic star nursery, and it has infant stars, and two old stars, one is s blue giant, one a red giant. Both are large enough that when they explode they will form black holes. There are black holes all over in our galaxy and all galaxies. They are at the center of galaxies. When they were young, they were quazars. You can't argue any of this, the hubble showed us. The most distant thing the hubble could see was quazars, beyond that was before the bigbang when the universe or time didn't exist. Now, that doesn't mean there wasn;t something in the whole of things because there was, but not in our universe. They think there may be paralel universes that are all in the same place in a way, only under different frequecies, like a radio, dial to different universes. We are made of energy, we are at a certain frequencies. This is what the string theory is all about. So yes, god could be everywhere or no where, think what you want, but don't make claims against the facts or you are missing the boat and not getting close to god, you would be gettuing away from him and the truth.

Quantum mechanics does not follow the laws of physics, now hows that for a source of faith? How can this be? It is true. There is a lot of room for the unkown. By amking false claims ruins it all. Let people learn the truth, it won't hurt religion, it will probably help.
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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/09/2007 8:46 PM Reply with quote
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I guess I scared everyone away. Umm, i kindof enjoy talking about the universe, maybe I'll say more. That that anyone is probably listening. I get a little wound up on the subject because I read so much about it. So let me say more.

When I said an atom is mostly air I meant space, it is mostly space, and remve the space and you can pack a universe into the size of one atom. Imagine that. I also mentioned the partical excellerator in texas, let me explain, it is this giant ring where they shoot a particle, say an electron, through the ring faster and faster by magnetic force, like a gererator does, only much faster. Next they crash the parital into another partical, say an electron. And then they get a small bang that creates matter. So it really doesn't start with nothing, it starts with a little bang and new matter is born. This is simualr to the big bang, only on a grander scale.

Anyway, our universe has these black holes that eat up matter, and in time they will eat up each other until there is only one blackhole/singularity left. This little singularity is doing nothing, just sitting there with nothing. Then along comes another singularuty and it crashes into the other at a high rate of speed and causes a big bang. This is unknown territory, but could give one a little understanding of how the big bang could happen, and what was before, and we know what was after.

Or, the universe that is expanding, could somehow stop expading and retreat backwards to the singularity again. That is a therory that looks weaker all the time, but thats the sort of thing scientists are imagining. It could be other ways, like we don't know whats beyond the black hole. Sometines it shoots out great streams of energy, things go on inside. It could be that on the otherside of the black hole is another universe. That is another therory.

I mentioned the orion and would like to say more on that. The orion is our best nightsky feature to see with binaculars or a telescope. It is a beautifull nebula, created when a giant star exploded. This giant star was old, and not alone. It has relatives that are also old and they are giants that can explode at anytime. One is red, the other is blue. The color difference is because of the chemicals they burn, but they are about the same. They were born out of another star that exploded long ago. One already exploded and that would be great to see such a thing. It lit up the night sky for 30 days. Imagine what went threw the minds of people who saw such a thing. Anyway, back to the orion, it is a star nursery with many young stars forming and some already have solar systems hidden by all the gas and dust. The orion nebula is so big, it covers a large area of the sky. Looking at orions belt is three stars. The one on the left and just above is where you will find this nebula, which came even be seen by the naked eye. A ways above that you may find the horsehead nebula, which is actually part of the orion, its that big. And its not the biggest nebuala, the american nebula holds that title, but its boring compared to the orion. Look for the i\orion in the late fall and winter at dusk. Following the orion nebuala is taurus and the seven sisters. Both are nebula. Taurus has black holes in it, but its small even through the telescope. But the seven sisters are real jewels in the sky. You have probably seen then, seven stars in a close proximety of each other very bright and pretty. This is a young star nursery and they have blueish dust all around. Surely you have seen pictures of it. It is still forming so no black holes or exploding stars there.

Looking a little to the north is pleades, where a galaxy called andramoda is heading toward us at 30,000 miles a second. No need to worry, it will still take billions of years to reach us. It is simular to our galaxy so it is like looking at the milkyway. In the bands are exploding stars and nebulas and black holes. One day our galaxies will collide, only since things are so spread out, they won;t crash, they will pass through each other and then gravity will have its affects. The two will start a dance of a sort, gravity fisght it out. Eventually they will be one galaxy, and so goes the universe eating each other up into black holes/singularities.

Now looking at how everything goes, everyone can come to their own conclusions about the unkown. Myself, I think energy continues on but no intelegent being controlling everything, but it is the unkown, and spectacular shocking things are happening. It could be, that when we die, time stops. and since it stops, emediatly we would wake up into a new universe, or back to ours, or what ever you want to believe. We are all part of the universe, and energy can never be used up and that is what we are made of, so our energy will always be around as long as the iniverse is around, and who knows after that.

To get a grasp on what I am saying about the universe, imagine it as an explosion of time. So nothing in our universe existed before the explosion of time because there was no time yet. Now whats outside of our universe is the unkown and can never be answered, only therories of what people can imagine.

I mentioned quantum mechanics doesn't follow the laws of physics. This is true. Not only that, but it doesn;t follow our law of time either. So this is an open door for people top imagine.

Go back 2000 years, around that time a star may have exploded in earths view, and imagine how people felt. They imagined with no knowledge like we have today, so they tried to fill the void with silly stuff. If it happened now, we would know it was a star exploding and we could enjoy it.

Now, one last thought on religion, to put it into perspective, imagine someone called themselves the son of god. Would you believe them? Things really weren't that different back then. Except, they did not have knowledge but they did have great minds bimagining things and making thererories. Mix that in with some true history, and you have the bible that isn't even the same bible as it was when it was written, which was not at once but over decades, milliniums and still being changed to fit with the times. It is misleading and we don't need it. There is all kinds of places to fit god into the sceme of things. Thats why I say have your faith, but leave out the details because no one can answer those things and it takes away from the real possibilitiies of there being a god. It is ok to be proud of having faith and to mention it, but stating science is wrong is only closing your mind to the real god, so to speak. I in no way believe in god, don't get the wrong idea about that, I just can't know there is not, that part is my oppinion. Religion is oppinion. It is strongest when kept as oppinion and leave the facts alone unless you want to go with the facts and learn more about god's universe or universes.

All for now. Thank u is you read this but I doubt anyone does. I hope you pick up some books on these subjects so you will have more than just what I have to say.
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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/09/2007 8:49 PM Reply with quote
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I'm reading every work you write.



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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/09/2007 9:41 PM Reply with quote
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Thats good rb, I am going by memory but I should be close.

Clarification- the orion nebula sites below the first and middle star of orions belt as it rises. Above and left of the first star is the horsehead, which is part of the nebala.

If I remember right, (I mentioned a pulsar yesterday) a pulsar is from two stars that were neighbors, as most stars have a companion or two, and when one ran out of helium it caved into a black hole, sucking in all matter around it. That would include the neighboring star. As it got close to finishing the intake of the star, it was spinniing very fast and spewing out jet streams of energy, a hickup of sorts, and this is what a pulsar is and they use these to set our atomic clock because they are so acurate.

Thats all I have to say tomight.
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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/09/2007 9:49 PM Reply with quote
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Thank you Dave for taking the time to share all that information with us


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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/10/2007 7:27 AM Reply with quote
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Spider thats very enlightening but it still boils down to where and with whom one places their faith.. And I choose to believe in an almighty omnipitent God,,, And I'm glad I do... I had no idea this little poem would create this controversary... I can't wait for you folks to read my next subject... Just kidding Smile
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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/10/2007 2:36 PM Reply with quote
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correction, again, its been about tn years since I read anything about this stuf.

A pulsar wasn't quite big enough to cave into a black hole. They cave into a nutrom star where electrons and protons are crushed into nuetrons. A teaspoon would weigh a million tons or something. More on nuetrons here:

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l1/pulsars.html
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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/10/2007 5:54 PM Reply with quote
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Spider thats very enlightening but it still boils down to where and with whom one places their faith.. And I choose to believe in an almighty omnipitent God,,,


Well katy, I wasn't trying to hurt you or convince you. But there are others in here that do want answers about the universe and where religion fits in. I'm not trying to convince them either. I only wish to shed some light for those with open minds who wonder I like do. I'm sure there is a zillion religous sites where you could go and have everyone agree with you and then you wouldn't have to try to hurt people who disagree when you discount scientific facts as being wrong. But for me, I feel there is too many people abusing religion, using it for personal gain by way of politics and money. So to me, people do deserve to hear the truth if they want it.
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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/13/2007 2:39 PM Reply with quote
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Spider you didn't hurt me... This was my thoughts in a poem. I think I have the right to defend the statements that I made.. It was my post, so why would YOU tell ME to go elsewhere
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