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CREATION
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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/01/2007 5:39 PM Reply with quote
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Evolution didn't spring out of nothing.  That's a completely separate topic than discussing what happened in the very beginning that might have started the ball rolling...

The problem is that many people reject the idea that something could spring from nothing, but then accept that God could spring from nothing.  They claim that it would be impossible for everything that we can observe to appear without some designer, but fail to explain that if it takes something to make something, then something had to have made the designer that created everything too.  For them to reject so much means that if they were thinking logically, they would have to reject the existance of God since a god could not materialize out of nothing and would need to be created by something pretty powerful...

Then even if they did admit that something had to have created god, then something would also have had to have created the thing that created god, and still not have an answer as to what started the ball rolling in the first place...

It is impossible to reject the scientific theories based on their arguments without also rejecting the ability of a god to materialize from nothing.  They can't have it both ways.  Either all theories are possible or none are.  And if all theories are possible, then religion shouldn't be taught as a fact, but as one of a many possible answers, some with more supporting scientific evidence than others.  The only evidence that god exists is a Book written by man.  That is not proof of anything...

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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/01/2007 8:20 PM Reply with quote
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I think you're trying to make everything too complicated.


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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/01/2007 9:27 PM Reply with quote
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Not really.  I'm just trying to show that if you use an argument to dismiss one theory, you have to use the same argument to dismiss all of them.  You can't on the one hand claim that the universe couldn't have come out of nothing without a creator without explaining what created the creator.  Either both are plausible possibilities or neither are...

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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/01/2007 9:59 PM Reply with quote
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Quote:
You can't on the one hand claim that the universe couldn't have come out of nothing

I don't.  I have already acknowledged the fact that the universe was created out of nothing.  I wasn't aware there was a debate over that.

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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/01/2007 10:59 PM Reply with quote
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Yes, that is the debate.  Many claim that God created the universe and that the universe could not have been created from nothing.  But they won't even explore the problem of what created god.  They refuse to see the logical flaw of denying one without denying both...

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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/02/2007 6:52 AM Reply with quote
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My beliefs may sound rediculous to you and at the same time yourbeliefs are just as far fetched to me... So lets just leave it at that....
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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/02/2007 4:13 PM Reply with quote
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I didn't say that your beliefs sound ridiculous.  I said that to be consistent, you can't believe in one, then use an argument to reject other ideas which could also be used to reject the existance of a god as well.  So either all of the theories and views are ridiculous or none of them are.  To reject one with that criteria rejects all since none could pass the smell test when using the "it takes something to make something" argument...

So to be honest, religious leaders should openly state that they think their teachings are true, but it is clearly possible that they are wrong as well.  It does get tiring hearing people's beliefs being taught as pure fact when it should be clear that there is just as much reason to believe that there is absolutely no truth to any of it as well as no evidence to support it.  The problem comes when the concept is taught as an absolute truth even though there is so much evidence and so many arguments that can show that it could be an absolute myth instead...

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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/03/2007 10:07 AM Reply with quote
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I say God created the universe from nothing... Everybody needs some kind of faith...  And i choost to be a believer
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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/03/2007 1:28 PM Reply with quote
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So the question still is what created god so that (s)he could create the universe out of nothing???

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Re: CREATION
PostPosted: 08/08/2007 9:09 PM Reply with quote
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I gotta say something, I can't hold back. Look, the information is out there, it does not prove there is no god, it actually leaves the possibilty open. But by making something up that doesn't make sense, or from a book that is fiction, is just denying the truth about god, if there was such a thing. So all people have to do is learn where fact is left off and understand what really is possible. Then you would be armed with something, and you wouldn't need the nonsense people have been making believing for over 2000 years. You are believing in a false god because you cannot open your minds to what is really possible. But then, what difference does it make? Well, since you are trying to spread the nonsence, which is not the truth, and try to convince others, then it is making a difference because others are persuaded by the non truth and people actually doe because of the make believe non sense.

I have told you all this before, it isn't that difficult. There are places where facts no longer exist, leaving open doors for people who want to believe in a god. But to go against the facts, the very facts that we use everyday and they are keeping us alive by medicine and etc., well its counter productive.

There is no proof of any kind of god. There is no way anyone can have those answers, it is faith based, not fact based. So to argue facts is just silly and wrong. If I wanted to give a good arguement, I could di much better than to argue the big bang. Even the pope admitted it was fact. That aruguement is long over. Move on, read a book and non fiction.

Look in the encyclopedia on who wrote the bible. It will tell you the truth, it was written by writers and poets, not some god or son of god or anything, thats all bs. Its a book for people to understand things in the past before they had the answers. To use it now is just being ... backwards and not hoonest with yourselves. It is ok to believe in god, no one can tell you there is not one, unless you mix oppinion with fact, then you will be absolutly wrong. So back off trying to make believe facts and stick with the real facts, it does leave room for your god. Taking your roads is going in the other direction, away from god and you can be proven wrong. Learn where the door opens, god invites you in, but don't close that door and make something else up.
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