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Imageformats
PostPosted: 02/12/2005 9:52 AM Reply with quote
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Question, why can't I sav Bitmp "for the web" in PS elements 2? I don't understand this format, and I see it used often. It acts wierd, like when I capture an image from a video, it is bitmap and 2.5 DPI, which make no sence to me and I haven't had anyone answer me when i ask. Being self taught means sometimes I miss the basics. When I change the DPI to 300, it is bigger than my room here, gigantic.

Anyone buy the elements 3 yet? Is it worth it, and what does it offer over two?
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Re: Imageformats
PostPosted: 02/12/2005 10:52 AM Reply with quote
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The Bitmap format is .bmp, I would assume, since that's a common name for that graphics format. If that's not the file extension that PS Elements 2 is giving you, tell me.

You can't save as .bmp for the web because in that format the file sizes are humongous. They're not compressed in any way. Also, not all web browsers can handle the .bmp format. For the web, you should use .jpg, .gif, and .png formats. I think all browsers now support .png format, though for whatever reason it has not caught on with web designers. My generic advice is to use .jpg for photos and other graphics with gradient coloring, and .gif for cartoons, logos or other images with blocks of solid color. Also, try to use .gif for text images, because the .jpg compression puts artifacts (those little wiggly bits) around text, due to the sharp delineation between text lines and background.

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It acts wierd, like when I capture an image from a video, it is bitmap and 2.5 DPI,


I can't answer that, have no idea why it would capture at such a low resolution. If I have time later today, I may wander through the Elements 2 help files and see if there's any hint on this problem. Are you capturing from a video file on your hard drive, and what format is it, or are you using a video capture card?

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Anyone buy the elements 3 yet? Is it worth it, and what does it offer over two?


Sorry, I can't answer this one either. I use PSP for most of my work. Elements 2 came bundled with my scanner. Check Adobe's website and see what the new features are; if they look interesting, and would be something you'd use, then yes, it's probably worth upgrading.

I have a client who has Elements 2 on her iMac, and wants to start using it and learning it, so I may be playing with it some over the next few weeks.
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Re: Imageformats
PostPosted: 02/14/2005 10:16 AM Reply with quote
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Thanks for taking the time. I understand most other formats, except png- another puzzle. When I send a png to my CP store (they prefer png) it takes longer than a Tiff, so long its useless. I told them that but they don't understand either. When I work with png, I click save every so often, and it takes like 30 seconds just to save.

I am still learning about raster images and vectors, which I find no use for vestor what ever. I use the jpegs for web, but otherwise I try to keep pictures as tiffs.

Cafe Press uses BMP or whatever you said, (bitmap i think) about half the time. These are for sample products as small pictures, so I know its usefull, their pages load fast.

I use a plextar video converter, I use their software to capture, then I open and work with Roxio for DVD making and burning. (The intervidio software is junk when burning, its useless because its a scrambled mess, Roxio is great but can't cature sound and has great limitations). I keep these in the highest quality setting. I think the 2.5 means 250, or something.
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Re: Imageformats
PostPosted: 02/14/2005 11:14 AM Reply with quote
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When I send a png to my CP store (they prefer png) it takes longer than a Tiff, so long its useless. I told them that but they don't understand either. When I work with png, I click save every so often, and it takes like 30 seconds just to save.


How odd... PNG is a compressed format, so should upload faster than an uncompressed TIFF. I don't work with that format much, though. Next time I fool with it, I'll take a look at file sizes and save times, dunno why yours take so long to save. Might have something to do with image size, if you're working with very large images.

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I am still learning about raster images and vectors, which I find no use for vestor what ever. I use the jpegs for web, but otherwise I try to keep pictures as tiffs.


Raster images are a collection of colored dots. When you resize a raster image, it loses resolution; when you resize it larger and larger, you can eventually see the individual pixels (dots). Vector images are points and math describing the direction of lines and color. When you resize a vector image, it stays clear. Vectors can be messier to work with, though.

Do you draw your fish cartoons yourself? You might try doing those as vector drawings. They'll resize very neatly, no fuzziness when made smaller and no pixelation when enlarged.

I like the TIFF format, and save all my scans and photos in it. I used to use .tga format for animation frames, but recently I've started saving those in .bmp format, just so WinXP will show me the image faster when I'm looking for a certain pic and double-click on one. The .tga format I have to send to Irfanview.

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Cafe Press uses BMP or whatever you said, (bitmap i think) about half the time. These are for sample products as small pictures, so I know its usefull, their pages load fast.


The few times I've visited CP stores, I haven't seen any .bmp images, only .jpg. I suspect their software converts the .bmp files to .jpg format. BMP files are usually huge, because they're not compressed at all. The JPEG format can compress a lot, and though you lose image quality as you compress more you save on file size and download speed.
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Re: Imageformats
PostPosted: 02/15/2005 9:43 AM Reply with quote
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I do compress my tiffs, but most times I send Jpeg to CP store, png else takes much longer (45 min vs 30 for tiff vs 10 min for Jpeg).

I work my toons as tiffs, but every time i use a shape or text it has to be flatened and "will no longer be a vector image" it says, before I can continue; if I don't flatten it, I am severely limited.

I keep in mind most times that these cartoons will be giff with very little blending and fewer colors. lately I have been useing jpegs because I have been keeping them light, and I might just make people wait a little longer so I can do better. I can get 4 toons on one page with gif averaging 4-5 seconds each. If I can get a jpeg under 7 seconds, I'll use it.

Its funny, sometimes I can do a large wallpaper art picture and weighs less than a tiny cartoon (or sometimes a different art pic more complex can weigh 5 times as much).

Coke sent me some vectors to use in an ad, and they took 45 minutes to come in email. Then when I worked with them, they were huge in weight and one seemed to have a layer of dirt on it...I had to erase this dirt around the edges the best I could.  I just made it a very large size tiff and I bet they wonder how I got their coke icon to look better.

Thanks for helping.

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Re: Imageformats
PostPosted: 02/15/2005 11:04 AM Reply with quote
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I work my toons as tiffs, but every time i use a shape or text it has to be flatened and "will no longer be a vector image" it says, before I can continue; if I don't flatten it, I am severely limited.


You're working in Elements 2, right? I would recommend you save your working files in its native format, which is Photoshop's .psd, if I recall. That way you should be able to preserve your layers, and your transparecies, and your vector layers. By not flattening the image, you can more easily move pieces around, test how they look in different positions. You can more easily resize one piece or another, if it's on its own layer, duplicate layers, etc. I think Elements has layers, and the ability to resize a layer or object separately from the rest of the image. Then save the finished image as TIFF for use in print, or compress as .jpg for the web.

The .psd files can get huge, but that doesn't matter when you're still working on an image. I think it's more important to have access to the pieces of an image, and the vectors for resizing and rotating and distorting cleanly. Flatten and compress as the last step, when the image is completed, and save as a new file. Keep your working .psd file, in case you ever need to go back and change anything.

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I can get 4 toons on one page with gif averaging 4-5 seconds each. If I can get a jpeg under 7 seconds, I'll use it.


It's better to check file sizes than download times; downloads can bog down in slow servers or Internet bottlenecks at different times for you than for others. File sizes will give you a better indication of expected download times.

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I keep in mind most times that these cartoons will be giff with very little blending and fewer colors. lately I have been useing jpegs because I have been keeping them light,


Yeah, GIF format can't show blending well because it's limited to 256 colors. It compresses large blocks of a solid color, though. Also, its compression algorithm compresses horizontal lines and blocks of color much better than vertical lines and blocks.

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Coke sent me some vectors to use in an ad, and they took 45 minutes to come in email. Then when I worked with them, they were huge in weight and one seemed to have a layer of dirt on it...I had to erase this dirt around the edges the best I could.  I just made it a very large size tiff and I bet they wonder how I got their coke icon to look better.


Wow, that's cool, that you got to work on a Coke ad! But weird about that layer of dirt, can't think of what it could be... maybe a drop shadow? Yeah, I bet they did wonder why it looked better!

Are you on phone modem? I am so very glad we have cable modem, especially when I get a 13 meg image from an art gallery. It's well worth the extra cost for my work. That 13 meg was the record, but I've gotten lots of emails in the 5-7 meg range.

Cute cartoon -- that poor rabbit! Wink
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Re: Imageformats
PostPosted: 02/16/2005 9:52 AM Reply with quote
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Yes, I use PS elements. I use so many layers, sometimes thousands - so the ps format would be too big most times for me.

The coke ad was for Catfish Curl'y resturant menus, I had to add them and coke sent to me. It is a new resturant in Colorado. I made the logo, sign, menu, website etc. So far, its a big hit. I already have people asking for simular mascott & logos.

By the way, I send jpegs to CP store, I hate too but I have the slow phone line; I need cable, but I'm limping along for now. It takes about 20 minutes to send a 200 DPI 3000 px wide image, so most times I just send 2000 px wide and 150 dpi.

I can uderstand a vector image for a logo with only a couple colors, but I'm not in that pro league, I freelance special projects, like catfish curly, small time but many complex layers combined to one. I do keep copies of pics, like the mascot and other, and I can add these to a picture later and move all around & arrange before I flatten.

Heres the Catfish Curly's website:

http://www.catfishcurlys.net
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Re: Imageformats
PostPosted: 02/16/2005 11:43 PM Reply with quote
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Yes, I use PS elements. I use so many layers, sometimes thousands - so the ps format would be too big most times for me.


Does Elements let you flatten some layers, while leaving others alone? In PSP I can merge visible (so I hide the layers I don't want to flatten), or merge all, or merge down (which flattens only the currently active layer to the one immediately below it). That could let you have smaller files, with somewhat fewer layers, while still maintaining flexibility for moving text around, for example.

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The coke ad was for Catfish Curl'y resturant menus, I had to add them and coke sent to me. It is a new resturant in Colorado. I made the logo, sign, menu, website etc. So far, its a big hit. I already have people asking for simular mascott & logos.


It's a nice site, very cute logos and images. Is the Coke logo on the printed menu? I couldn't find it on the website. Btw, the Menu 2 and Menu 3 pages aren't needed. Wink

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By the way, I send jpegs to CP store, I hate too but I have the slow phone line; I need cable, but I'm limping along for now. It takes about 20 minutes to send a 200 DPI 3000 px wide image, so most times I just send 2000 px wide and 150 dpi.


Are the CP store images meant to be printed? Then you'd need the big images. But if they're only for viewing on a computer monitor, you can make them 72 dpi or 96 dpi, and no larger than 600 pixels on the longer side, so they'll fit nicely on an 800x600 monitor, and relatively well on a 640x480. That'd save you a LOT of file size, and upload time.

Also, if you're sending photos to CP, set Elements to remove any EXIF info that's inside the photo. Digital cameras, and also Photoshop and I assume other graphics programs, add EXIF data to the file.  (Date, time, camera brand, camera settings, etc.) You don't need this stuff on a web page, and removing it saves 30-50k of file size.
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Re: Imageformats
PostPosted: 02/17/2005 10:48 AM Reply with quote
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Does Elements let you flatten some layers, while leaving others alone?


No, but there is an elements three out that might have that, and there is an upgrade someone was telling me about that lets you do more. I plan to get the "3" soon. I do use multiple images or canvases to work with layers easier.

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It's a nice site, very cute logos and images. Is the Coke logo on the printed menu? I couldn't find it on the website. Btw, the Menu 2 and Menu 3 pages aren't needed.


Yes, the coke ads are on every page of both menus, lunch and main, it is some deal with coke, she gets paid if they're on it. I took their ads, which were all different sizes, and made a horizonal type picture with all 5 beverages. It looks better than what hey sent. I was mad at first, I had to rebuild the whole thing. She changed her mind but I told her I already changed it, and it actually makes it more appetizing.

Your right, some of the menu pages are blank and not linked up. I used her pages to show her samples of the menu. They were huge so when I finished I took them off and just used text on one page. The only problem is I can't use her font type. She has ten pages, so there are some un-needed. I just worked on it yesterady, I added new link icons and animations. I'm finished with it now. It will be listed in goggle soon, but she is alread getting decent traffic, probably because I put fisheadtackle at bottom.

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Are the CP store images meant to be printed? Then you'd need the big images. But if they're only for viewing on a computer monitor, you can make them 72 dpi or 96 dpi, and no larger than 600 pixels on the longer side, so they'll fit nicely on an 800x600 monitor, and relatively well on a 640x480. That'd save you a LOT of file size, and upload time.


I use 1000 px wide imagesfor my DVD slide shows, much smaller. I use the big pics for store because they are printed, they have a minimum size for different products, but the largest works for everything, so I try to send as big as possible. Lately I am sending 3000 px wide, (was 2000x1600) 150 or 200 DPI min. I do use the 72 px for the web, I optimise everything. People don't understand this and they try to print my pictures and don't know what they're missing.

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Also, if you're sending photos to CP, set Elements to remove any EXIF info that's inside the photo. Digital cameras, and also Photoshop and I assume other graphics programs, add EXIF data to the file.  (Date, time, camera brand, camera settings, etc.) You don't need this stuff on a web page, and removing it saves 30-50k of file size.


I'm not sure, I'll have to check into it. Never gave it a thought.
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Re: Imageformats
PostPosted: 02/17/2005 5:13 PM Reply with quote
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No, but there is an elements three out that might have that, and there is an upgrade someone was telling me about that lets you do more. I plan to get the "3" soon. I do use multiple images or canvases to work with layers easier.


That sounds like a great idea, the multiple canvases! And as I said, if there are any new, or improved, features in Elements 3 that you use, go ahead and upgrade if you've got the money. It'll be worth it.

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The only problem is I can't use her font type. She has ten pages, so there are some un-needed. I just worked on it yesterady, I added new link icons and animations. I'm finished with it now. It will be listed in goggle soon, but she is alread getting decent traffic, probably because I put fisheadtackle at bottom.


You're right about the font -- people who don't have that font on their computers won't see it on the website. I try to use only the very most common fonts, makes it easier for site visitors to read the text.

Google already has it indexed, if you search for "catfish curly" and I suspect it won't be too long before other search terms will find her site. That Googlebot is FAST! I think I saw a link to the restaurant on your site, so the 'bot followed it to the restaurant. It usually takes Google a couple of days to find any new site I've done and put a link on my site.
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